16 Comments

I can't plot, either. I've tried, and it just kills the story for me. I've lost a few good ideas that way.

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I, too, cannot plot extensively beforehand, for the same reasons you have described. And it's not for lack of trying. But it feels like being put into a concrete suit and told to run laps.

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What I love about your stories is their unhinged, dreamlike feel. I can 100% imagine that an outline just gets in the way when you're going for that sort of vibe.

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Yes! I genuinely can't work out the underpinnings/internal logic of the story without just writing it. It feels like [I was going to write "as sculptors say" but I looked it up and I guess it was Michelangelo himself who said it]--seeing the thing in the marble and carving until I get there. Hm, maybe we are sculptors versus builders.

I also just find plot uninteresting. Not that I don't appreciate a very cleverly tightly plotted film or book, but if that's alll there is, I feel like I've eaten too much junk food.

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For sure. I think in On Writing, Stephen King says something about how writing is the process of "uncovering" the story for him, which is a similar sentiment. And plot matters, but if you're doing it right, it's just a framework to hang better stuff (theme, character, prose, jokes, scares, etc.) on.

Also, I'm working on a novel with a Michelangelo motif as we speak, and I think you just gave me my next couple pages. So thanks :)

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Ha, I've been wanting to get back to this comment for days because I have a lot to say. :D "A framework to hang better stuff on"--yes, this is generally how I think of plot as well. One approach that kind of fascinates me is the super simple/barely there plot that exists just to let characters develop or weird shit unfold or whatever. One of the supreme examples for me is Apocalypse Now (a favorite film), which takes the basic premise "man goes upriver to kill another man" to do just that (character development and weird shit).

Then there's crime fiction--which I love, which sometimes confuses people if they know how I feel about plot but for the most part the crime fiction I love is actually not that concerned with the plot. This is the case for one of my favorite writers, George Pelecanos, whose stories are so character driven that I barely even pay attention to whatever the plot is. I read an interview with him many years ago where he said he basically approaches his books like Westerns and just wants to have a big shootout at the end. Then you have Chandler, whose The Big Sleep was so convoluted that even he couldn't work out all the whodunnits. (Also, I am really dumb when it comes to figuring out mysteries/plot twists of any kind, so if I'm reading a book and I can see what's coming, I take this as a sign the writer has gone very very badly wrong--if I can figure it out, anyone can. I should hire myself out as some kind of "plot tone deaf insensitivity reader.")

Anyway, for someone who isn't interested in plot I have a lot to say about it but right now I have to go finish putting together a bed. I might write more about this (plot not building a bed) in a future substack...

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I'm outing myself as super #basic by referencing both On Writing and Save the Cat! in the same thread, but one thing I appreciate about the latter is Blake Snyder's insistence on calling mystery fiction "whydunits" instead of "whodunits"—to highlight that the question of *why* a crime was committed is a much more interesting one than the question of *who* did it. Curiosity as to who the perp is might hold your attention long enough to get you to the end, but the look into the question of human nature is what will keep you coming back to the best works in the genre.

I hadn't heard of Pelecanos till now—I might have to check him out. I've always struggled to get into the mystery/crime genre (much to my mother's annoyance, I'm sure, since she loves it), but he sounds like someone I could appreciate.

I *am* a big Chandler fan, which maybe isn't surprising, since he really is an author you can read just for his prose.

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I will be interested to hear what you think of Pelecanos! I kept meaning to come back to this comment though and also recommend Tana French. The mysteries are really not the point (the characters are--each protaganist is a side character in the previous book), her prose is really gorgeous, and her work in the Dublin Murder Squad series often feels as though it teeters on the edge of the supernatural just because of the evocative prose alone, if that makes any sense--and then she actually does very subtly invoke the supernatural in a later book in the series. It's definitely crime fiction I would recommend to someone who doesn't like crime fiction.

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Gardeners vs Architects

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Hmm, I think I prefer those terms…except I’m complete garbage at actual gardening, haha

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I like it because it sounds a bit more intentional than pantsing! But then I wonder if I am even that intentional...

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I like it because it doesn't make me sound like I'm five years old if I want to talk about it!

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Yes, it's quite undignified, really. Makes us Gardeners sound like we're silly children with no clue what we're doing. Erm.

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I resemble that, etc

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This is so much better.

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